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Ontario, Canada.

What are your thought's on delaying the graduall and slow decline of the marching callendar. The cool nights of late August and early September usher in more than PM. The build up of etheylene and absisci acid can shut down a plant very quickly.

Does the standard foliar treatments of Calcium really work for you?

What roll does Humic acid play in increasing the plant active growth cycle?

Seaweed extracts, (kelp meal) are two of the most basic life prolongers. Do you drench and or foliar with these products?

Is it usefull to apply Pgr's during this time? Will Indole Butric acide (IBA) help to grow more unsuberized roots to gain Calcium uptake work?

Does molasses play a role in late season fruit growth?

Make this be your information center to the late summer soltice and growth gains to put you over the top at a GPC sitein October.

Please share your links....

Russ

8/25/2005 9:52:43 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

Russ:
A relavent thread for me as I have an annual struggle to get late season fruit growth. While other growers seem to be still chugging along, my plant always seems to start to dieback in mid-Aug and is limping by Labor Day. My weight gains after Labor Day have historically been very minimal. Because I have not 'beat' this problem, I don't have much useful to share here. But I do know that with trees, the diminishing amount of daylight triggers the leaves to turn colors. I'm sure temp and genetics play a role as well, but I believe diminishing daylight is the key trigger. I have often thought...what if I had ample lighting in my patch to 'replace' lost light after the solstice, thus tricking the plant into thinking it's still mid-summer? Would it delay the ripening process and continue to grow longer? Just a thought.

8/25/2005 10:26:09 AM

Abbotsford, B.C

Yes, if you had some high powered lights afixed above the patch, on a timer to turn on a six o'clock every morning, and then you turn them off when you get up, and then you turn them on again come evening time, and have them automatically shut off at ten o'clock! I imagine they would have to be very powerful lights, though, to trick the plant into thinking it's still summer. And what if it is not the light that shuts off the plant growth? What if it is diminishing night temperatures? I doubt it will be easy to ascertain which (or both) factors influences the shutting down of plant growth.

Cameron

Cameron

8/25/2005 12:08:42 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

yes I agree, cool temps will slow growth and a good frost will kill the plant but it is the light cycle that shuts down the plant's metabolism. But like all changes in the plant's environment I think it needs to be gradual. If you've already lost two hours of daylight naturally and then crank on some high beams suddenly for an extra few hours a day you might get some strange results. -Jim

8/25/2005 4:20:47 PM

I think photoperiod plays a bigger role in perennials, who have to switch gears in the fall to survive the dry season (aka winter). We're dealing with hormones! Ethylene is what triggers fruit maturation. Whatever triggers the ethylene production would need to be stopped to keep the fruit growing.
Russ do you know if photoperiod plays a role in ethylene production???

8/25/2005 5:27:41 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

Very good questions Kahuna. I hope some of them get answered. The most impressive in this thread is what Brigitte had said. Brigitte could you please explain what you said in a little more detail to a second year grower who feels like a rookie? Is there a way of triggering or ceasing (at least slowing down) the hormones in pumpkins?

8/25/2005 6:41:13 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

Russ, what I read was that Humic acid increases a plants ablility to absorb more nutrients. Here is a short but very educational website on Humic acid: http://www.greensmiths.com/humic.htm

8/25/2005 6:48:20 PM

Western NY

interesting about the eythelene. i've known about it for some time, but sitting here now i am wondering if my methods to super- insulate the fruit at night do more harm than good by trapping in the gasses near the fruit.

8/25/2005 9:32:45 PM

ontario

Russ September is the time to pray..........

8/25/2005 10:48:32 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Yes Andy, that makes perfect sense. We have to be trapping gas in the blankets. OMG... I proved that earlier this year by taking a banana to work in a plastic bag. In fact I think we talked a bit about this. Do you remember Brigitte?

I have not done any photo-period research or the effects of it on Ethylene production. I have found articles that relate to increased gas production from wind however.

Alan Eaton, Dan carlson & Jack Larue have it figured out pretty good. I mean Alan gained a zillion pounds in September last year with crappy weather to boot.

Wayne I am praying for good weather.

8/25/2005 11:02:25 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

This looks like a possible solution for my greenhouse situation.http://www.deltatrak.com/time_ethylene.shtml
Turns ethylene into into CO2 wow thats useful will have to find out the cost.

8/26/2005 3:20:42 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Manganese Dioxide....you would need an enclosed greenhouse and alot of it.

8/26/2005 3:40:55 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Turns out that Potassium Permanganate is used by Koi carp enthusiasts to kill lice,NTL labs in the UK are the same people who sponsor one of our weigh offs they sell it in a liquid form for $10.
I'm gonna try soaking some dypers in it and hanging them from the greenhouse roof.
Maybe it would be possible to incorporate a little on the blanket or whatever that your fruit is wrapped up in to neutralise the trapped gases.

8/26/2005 4:26:50 PM

Abbotsford, B.C

If there is the possibility that gas is being trapped inside your super-insulated mini-greenhouse for the pumpkin, take a fan, or better yet, a heater and a fan, and have the fan pulling air out and spewing it outside it outside. To keep the pumpkin warm at the same time, have a heater on the other side of the mini-greenhouse warming the air (don't have it pointed towards the pumpkin!) so that you are getting air flow to prevent high concentrations of ethylene, yet keeping the air warm.

Apples are known to exude great quantities of ethylene gas while they are ripening, which is why you should never store them with other fruit. To experiment on products that block or convert ethylene, you could enclose some vulnerable fruit (e.g, bananas) with apples in a plastic bag and apply the product. And, of course, a control without the product. But no matter what you could possibly use, it would be expensive to apply an ethylene-converting substance to the entire plant, I would be thinking.

Cameron

8/26/2005 4:35:43 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

This is a link to a table on the production and sensitivity of fruit and Ethylene.
It rates C.Maxima as a low producer.
http://postharvest.ucdavis.edu/Produce/Storage/prop_np.shtml

8/26/2005 5:14:43 PM

Decatur, IL

So, all in all, should I cover with a blanket at night or not?
Charlie

8/26/2005 6:20:40 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Ethylene, also known as the 'death' or 'ripening hormone' plays a regulatory role in many processes of plant growth, development and eventually death. Fruits, vegetables and flowers contain receptors which serve as bonding sites to absorb free atmospheric ethylene molecules. The common practice of placing a tomato, avocado or banana in a paper bag to hasten ripening is an example of the action of ethylene on produce. Increased levels of ethylene contained within the bag, released by the produce itself, serves as a stimulant after reabsorption to initiate the production of more ethylene. The overall effect is to hasten ripening, aging and eventually spoilage. A refrigerator acts in much the same way. Kept closed to retain the desired temperature, it also enables an increased concentration of ethylene to accumulate. Any closed environment, such as a truck trailer, shipping container or warehouse, will have a similar effect.

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ethylene-Gas.htm

8/26/2005 6:25:14 PM

Lloydminster/AB

C.Maxima fruits are know as winter squashes because they keep for long periods of time, perhaps over winter. They are obviously nearly imune to the effects of ethylene gas. I grow in greenhouses with nonvented propane and kerosene heaters that could produce the gas but I have never noticed any ill effects. My fruits have gained weight up to the 100 day mark. I say worry about the temps not the ethylene gas. Aba produced by heat or other stresses will shut down a fruit real fast though!

Don

8/26/2005 8:44:32 PM

Rhode Island

all i know is that come late august i feed my plant like she was a fine race hourse heading into the top of the stretch

i whip her ,dig in my spurs, then hit her some more

if i used kelp,humic acid ,calcium, etc, during the season i continue to use it( just moderate as the weeks go on

my only changes are that i go to a high potash fertilizer like 12-0-44 or 5-10-40 and mix with above as needed

dont be afraid,if shes not splitting now chances are she won

if your nursing a split or couple of bad dill rings thats a hourse (lol) of a different color ---- then you cant step on her much

i want every ounce i can get if its a contending pumpkin

pap

8/26/2005 8:50:41 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Don,
Another method used by commercial storers of fruit is pumping in CO2 it is twice as heavy as ethylene and forces it up out of the way.Propane burners produce CO2,looks like they may have an advantage that we didn't realise.

8/27/2005 3:28:08 AM