From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Buffalo, MN ([email protected])

Several growers have been discussing the cause, prevention of Dill rings. Is it the lack of water, cold water, hot or cold weather, growing spurts, chemical imbalance, genetic etc? What are your thoughts?

Billf

9/8/2005 10:16:59 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Nu-B says...from hours on this site that...genetics is the winner!!!! Wait for the pros to respond before making your mind up. Dill rings are named after one of the pioneers of this hobby...I think??? Howard??? Maybe Ralph or Darrell??? No disrespect meant, Mr. Dill...the way I understand it, was one of the pioneers of the hobby (sport). I think it is a recessive gene that shows up from time to time in almost all lines...no way to tell if it will appear in your specific fruit...but, like I said, wait to hear from the experts. Peace Wayne

9/8/2005 11:11:30 PM

Abbotsford, B.C

I have been told by a heavy hitter that he prefers to call 'dill rings' by the term 'sag lines', so as to not associate a negative thing with the man who created the giant pumpkin sport, for goodness sakes! But my thoughts are genetics too, the only one I have had show up was on a seed that had a sort of similiar ring, only I didn't see the picture until after I was growing it!

Caneribn\

9/9/2005 12:27:52 AM

Abbotsford, B.C

What? How in the world did that happen! My name is Cameron, NOT Caneribn/! Oops.

9/9/2005 12:28:45 AM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

My guess would be that they are caused by a combination of all of the factors listed above.

9/9/2005 12:52:02 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I don't know what they're caused by, but what's going on
inside the pumpkin is that the interior of the fruit
is cracking perpendicularly to the direction of the lobes.
It may be that the fruit is simply "growing more", or for
a longer period of time. It's a stress fracture.

9/9/2005 2:32:39 AM

Napa Valley, CA

Wayne...... Mr. Dill's first name is Howard. Without his pioneering efforts and persistence we would not be growing Atlantic Giants today and right about now we would all be pushing to get to the 500 lb. mark instead of 1500 lb.

Genteics and/or growth spurts seem to be the main cause of sag lines.

I think we should make the term "Dill Ring" mean something positive.
When we present the "Orange Jacket" to the world's top grower in Niagara each year, we should also slip a coveted "Dill Ring" on his or her finger to show that he or she is the world's #1 grower (sort of like a Super Bowl Ring). The Orange Jacket is worn on occasion.......the Dill Ring can be worn all the time !
George

9/9/2005 4:13:13 AM

New Hampshire

Good ideal George

9/9/2005 6:48:14 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I think it might be anything but not genetic. Last year I had several fruit on my 801.5 Stelts plant and none but one (472 R. 04) had a Dill ring. Must have been the weather when this single one was pollinated or in a critical (if something like that exists for the formation of sag lines) period of growth.

9/9/2005 9:44:35 AM

Indiana

there are more than 1 cause for the rings.

1) most of these are absolutely genetic
2) growth fluctuations cause others
3) temperature fluctuations
4) fat man laying on pumpkin while measuring

I find it kind of funny that they are called "Dill" rings because the brunt of the rings we see today are what I believe to be from the Gancarz line of seeds......

Tom

9/9/2005 11:35:47 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Line of dehiscence. may be the correct term. It refers to a fruit which splits open at maturity. We tend to think of AGP's as Indehiscence: not splitting open at maturity. But the various genetic strains continue to evolve into Dehiscent: fruit that split open at maturity

Generally we call Lines of Lateral suture(RIBS)
A lateral suture is a line of weaker tissue along the side of a fruit along which the fruit may split open at maturity.

9/9/2005 12:54:17 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Some pumpkin fruit are considered indehiscent. AGP's may need to be reclassified as both indehiscent and dehiscent. Actually the correct terminology for a Dill ring split should be a Radial line of suture or dehiscence.

9/9/2005 1:07:30 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Could it be possible that the AGP vshares some of these genes.

Wild And Squirting Cucumbers

Some members of the gourd family, such as the wild cucumber (Marah macrocarpus) do not produce the typical pepo fruit of the Gourd Family. Instead they produce seed-bearing capsules that split open at one end. Following winter and spring rains, wild cucumber vines bearing large, green spiny fruits drape the native chaparral vegetation throughout mountains of coastal southern California. Each year the vines grow rapidly from enormous subterranean tuberous burls that may be several feet in diameter and weigh 60 to 100 pounds. They are often the first plants to appear in chaparral areas that were burned during the fire season of the previous summer and fall. When the spiny fruits of wild cucumber are mature they suddenly split open with an audible cracking sound revealing several large seeds inside. A related Mediterranean species, called the "squirting cucumber" (Ecballium elaterium) explosively ejects its seeds like a miniature canon.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0503.htm#fruit

9/9/2005 1:24:28 PM

Follansbee, Wv

"explosively ejects its seeds like a miniature canon."

I would love to see a 1000 pound AG do that, just not one of mine, and not when I'm in front of it.

9/9/2005 5:13:16 PM

North Smithfield, RI USA

What we need is a school. Pumpkin U we could call it ! Kakuna3 could one of our instructors, Tremor would give a few lectures ! Don Langevins's books would be required reading ! Ray Waterman could teach a course ! Perhaps Jack Larue or Al Eaton could come in once a week ! Tom Beachy would bring in the younger generation ! Them RI growers and their NH friends could help out too !

9/10/2005 7:23:05 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Northman, don't forget about Mr. Orange...head of the art department. Peace Wayne

9/11/2005 7:13:36 AM

[email protected]

Northman, We have such an event. Niagara.

Genetic predisposition + environmental inluence + bad luck = Dill Ring.

Thanks to Russ for discovering the real scientific terminology. I can hear the growers oohing & ahhing pumpkins at the weigh-off now.

"Would you just look at that there extreme line of lateral suture!!! How did Joe ever hold that thing together?"

Now we know WHY we use the incorrect term "Dill Ring". But I still have never learned WHERE the term came from.

9/11/2005 8:18:47 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Steve I thought we went to Niagara to drink Beer? hmmm

9/11/2005 9:12:19 AM

[email protected]

Well.....yeah.....we do that too.....beer.....and seeds.....and beer.....and beer.

9/11/2005 7:03:19 PM

Ontario, Canada.

The real reason they are called lateral lines is the fish in the Neptunes Harvest is causing mutations....LOL....pretty soon they may develop fins.

9/12/2005 8:17:26 PM