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Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Lets get a discussion going on about weed control, what everyone uses or will use next year. We all know how much of a pain it is to weed constantly throughout the season. I currently pull every weed out by hand up to Sept. There has to be an easier way? Thanks...Ray Leonzi

11/18/2005 4:53:53 PM

Garden

I will be pulling by hand :(

11/18/2005 5:19:50 PM

Western NY

I pull by hand, but I noticed that mulching with leaves helped keep down the weeds. I'll be doing it again next year, but much more extensively. Wait to mulch until around pollination, though. you want to wait until the soil has warmed up completely.

11/18/2005 5:27:25 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Is there any cause for concern with the leaves causing disease?

11/18/2005 5:31:57 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Ray, ask Bart how he controlled his, I will be solarizing like he did.

11/18/2005 5:43:44 PM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

solarizing???

11/18/2005 6:20:39 PM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

. . .clear plastic???

11/18/2005 6:21:29 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

yes, clear plastic was used....thinking of doing the same

11/18/2005 6:29:52 PM

Montoursville, PA

Agree with Andy completely. Warming up with clear plastic as in solarizing eliminates the possiblity, of using buckwheat as a spring cover crop which adds lots, of OM and fertilization to boot. The cover crop will defeat as many or more weeds by elimination, of light, as the solarization will cook, in my opinion. It seems to me that warming up the soil is mute because the soil goes ambient within twenty four hours after the clear plastic is removed. Solarazation as described in numerous writings involves a whole growing season under cover. Then when you till or turn the soil you expose all that may have been killed, to light, air, water and the conditions for germination, of the new seeds. Solarazation is very similar to sterilization, by chemicals. It is not specialized as to what it kills by cooking at tempertures of 120 or so in the first inch or two of the soil. It may be counter productive in many instances. I would much rather keep the total biological ballance alive and well covered and nurtured by a buckwheat spring cover crop or a light mulch after the soil has warmed up naturally.

In between control I use a hoe sold only, by Johny's Seed, that is best described as half a shuffle hoe. It is unique and much lighter than shuffle hoes. Does the same work easier. In about twenty minutes twice a week I can keep a one thousand square foot patch relatively weed free.

11/18/2005 7:00:07 PM

no.scituate R I

Ray the trick is to get them when they're small. I use a push pull hoe weeder by Wolf. The push pull hoe is a attachment that you can use on a short 14" handle that is great to use to bury vines and close up weeding. Then with a click of the button on the hoe you can attach an extention handle. That enables you to go from 67" to 118" and is fantastic for weeding long side vines. All three pieces cost about $50 dollars not cheap but well worth the money. My son gave it to me for my birthday and it has been the best time saving tool I know of. The Agway store near me sells them, or check out the web site. www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ tg/detail/-/B00023S4UI?v=glance happy weeding Joe J

11/18/2005 8:27:51 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

Doc! the half-shuffle hoe that you mentioned above, is that the one that I saw and tried? Is it availble online? What is the web address? Thanks.

11/18/2005 8:45:24 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Doc if what you say is true then Bart did aweful while ruining his soil......

11/18/2005 8:47:04 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

opps, aweful good job while ruining his soil...

11/18/2005 8:50:03 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

I think I will try the buck wheat thing this spring, however I have a hard time believing that there are no comercial herbicides that are safe for AG's. I sell herbicides for a living so I have to be on that side of the line. I think I may try some Metalachlor this spring. This product is sold in the US as Bisep II Magnum and in Canada as Dual II Magnum. It is commonly used in Cucurbits here and is considered quits safe. It is primarily a grass herbicide but also offers some broadleaf supression.

11/18/2005 9:03:32 PM

Canada

When would be the best time to lay this clear plastic over the patch? and for how long would it stay?

I'm worried about weeds as well from all the fresh manure i added this fall, I was thinking as My plants hit the patch May 10th I would lay the plastic down over the entire patch 2 weeks in advance then pull it up a day or 2 before planting?

would that help any?

Dave

11/18/2005 9:04:08 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Dave, as bart put his plants in the patch he soaked the entire patch really well and put clear plastic down about 4 feet from the plants (and hoop houses, as the plants grew, he moved the plastic back away from it.
I was able to tour his patch and I was amazed on how well it was kept, and how weed free it was, I asked Bart and he told me that he really didnt weed all year.
I believe that this is what Bart told me, and I'm a believer, Bart had several real nice large fruit in his patch, one over 900 lbs, I don't see this solarizing as having hurt his soil.

11/18/2005 9:44:59 PM

Western NY

I lay down plastic (without watering) in later April/ early May for the simple reason that i want the soil warmed up as much as i can get it when the seedlings hit the dirt.

11/18/2005 9:58:13 PM

Rhode Island

joe jutras knows his hoes.
nothing beats a good hand job joe, thats for sure.
joe introduce ron and i to the hand hoe method ( both right or left handed back and forth action) and we have been doing it ever since.
thanks joe.
pap

11/18/2005 10:10:33 PM

[email protected]

Tom,

There is some evidence that "solarizing" supresses aerobic bacteria. However Bert was pulling his plastic up well ahead of the vine. Therefore the bacterial population was stabilized before the plant roots arrived.

He didn't have the soil covered long enough to destroy it. Just long enough to destroy the weeds as they germinated.

You saw the results as did Ray. Bart's work paid off well for him & I would recommend his method to anyone.

11/18/2005 10:15:38 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Dick, Is it just a regular hoe?

11/18/2005 10:39:37 PM

[email protected]

It's more like a scuffle or stirrup hoe. They're awesome. I have one here you can see.

11/19/2005 12:22:55 AM

Roselle, IL [email protected]

I like to use multiple hoes. I just leave them in the patch and grab the one that will work the best. You can never have enough hoes.

11/19/2005 8:58:31 AM

Follansbee, Wv

I have yet to devise next years weed control program. It will probably be a combination of hand pulling and hoeing. I won't be able to use the plastic method, as good as it sounds, because of the cover crop growing ahead of the plants. Hopefully the cover crop will help keep the weeds to a minimum. Of course, cutting and tilling the cover crop in ahead of the plants will eliminate the weeds growing there as well, but the ones that grow up among the plants will have to be dealt with by hand/hoe. I am also considering the controlled use of spot applications of round-up on heavy weed populations in the event they get away from me for some reason during the season.
No matter how you look at it, weeds are a pain.

11/19/2005 9:34:19 AM

Long Island,New York

I don't think solarization is the best word for what Bert does. Perhaps "pre-sprouting" would better explain the process...plastic down in early spring after moisture added, soil warms to seed germ temps,seeds germinate and get fried by sun/high temps under the plastic shortly there-after.Perhaps Bort can comment on that? In any case it will likely prevent Bart from trenching ahead of vines and vine burying because that will bring new seeds to the surface where they will promptly annoy. Burt's method works well if your soil co-operates...and you have the right weedseeds in your patch...and the sun comes out the right days..and you are as anti-weed as Birt is and get the sneaky seedlings that are too smart for plastic.

11/19/2005 9:53:49 AM

Wallingford,CT

It seems that Ray has drawn me out and I should make some comments. I was going to write up my no weed program for the CT newsletter but its no secret. Tom, Steve and others have reported what I did. Most of us don’t like weeds and it’s a time consuming task to keep ahead of them. Time that could be better spent doing something else in the patch.

So in a nutshell, I water the patch and then cover it with cheep thin clear plastic. I use patch soil to cover every edge so the wind can’t get under it. When the sun comes out it warms the soil. The weed seeds are eager to germinate in this warm moist environment. The tender little weed seedlings don’t last long as the temperature rises to over 130. As the pumpkin plants grow I pull back the plastic in advance of the vines, maintaining a buffer zone of 6 feet or more.

My OM was 17% and I don’t worry about nuking everything in the soil due to high temperatures. The temperature drops quickly below the surface and the buffer zone between the plastic and the plants allows plenty of time to repopulate. The natural leaf canopy of the plant will slow new weeds to a manageable rate. I feel that by not constantly turning the soil with a tool new seeds are not rotated to the surface where they could germinate. If I get some additional warming at greater depths then that’s a bonus.

There are several ways to control weeds in your patch. It comes down to what works for you. Is Andy’s plan better than mine? I don’t know. He only beat me by FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS. Congrats Andy.

11/19/2005 11:31:52 AM

Wallingford,CT

I would have to agree with most of the observations by “Littlepumpkin” from Long Island. “Pre-sprouting” is probably a good description of what I do. Glunm always has unique insight to these things. Maybe Glem and I should co-author an article for the CT newsletter.

11/19/2005 11:42:44 AM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

lmao

11/19/2005 12:01:29 PM

Mastic Beach, New York

LOL @ G and Bart

11/19/2005 12:20:44 PM

[email protected]

Bert, Bort, Birt,......LOL

11/19/2005 1:25:37 PM

Knopp, Germany

Bert rocks

11/19/2005 2:50:13 PM

Southeast

3 inches of peat moss put down in early spring and watered in works very well.

11/19/2005 4:52:29 PM

North Smithfield, RI USA

http://www10Shopping,com/xGS-wolf_gartenten~NS~lin
For The Hoe that JJ uses

11/19/2005 5:45:00 PM

Good topic. Lesson learned for me... No matter what your method don't plant more than you have time to care for. I'll have fewer plants next year. The Jutras hoe is a great tool and a great time saver. Didn't spend enough time with her. Weeds got away from me and I have millions of seeds in my soil. I was actually thinking of using the black material that blocks the sun but lets water through and removing as the plant grows. Any thoughts or experinece on this?

11/19/2005 6:14:54 PM

Sheridan . NY

I have used a flamer in the vineyards for years and in the pumpkin ---

11/19/2005 6:36:35 PM

Topsfield, Ma.

I haven't had to weed to speak of for 5 years now. Mulch my 1200 sq ft patch with 3-6" shredded maple leaves. Started this practice to conserve water, as voluntary bans happen just about every year now. No attributable disease issues have sprung up, but my OM is over 20% now and I'm gonna Back off next season. Can't break 800lbs either...LOL
Gotta try something different.
Glem and Birt...LMAO

11/19/2005 6:42:18 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Co-author an article...LOL...the list of names of who wrote it would take up the whole first page. Peace Wayne

11/19/2005 7:59:22 PM

Deer Park WA

Hi Ray,

Weed control is alot like birth control, a little prevention goes a long way! We too like to use both right or left handed back and forth action because it sure gets the job done quick. I even taught my sons this techniqe of control and now I cant get the to stop.

thanks joe, Ron and Pap.

Gerry

11/19/2005 10:13:48 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Northman, link to see the hoe doesn't work. Any ideas? Peace Wayne

11/20/2005 5:53:10 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Johnny's Select Seeds has the Hoes you guys are looking for.
Any old stirrup hoe is not the same. We have three different models and this one here is the one we always fight for. 7" replaceable cutting head. Sharp stainless blade. Print it out an leave it laying around the house to give a few christmas hints.
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/product.aspx?scommand=search&search=stirrup&item=9504

The Hula Hoe comes in a strong second. Smaller easier to handle on tougher weeds and hard soil.

The 3rd one is from some chainstore and does the Job. But it is onely used if the othr two can be found

11/20/2005 9:49:13 PM

South Western Pa

I went tried the soil solarization in 2004. I did some things right and some things wrong. The two major mistakes I made 1) I did not have a really good seal around the edge of the plastic so a good portion of the heat was allowed to escape and 2) I tilled some of the patch after solarization, thereby bringing up weed seeds from deeper down. I also went a little overboard and built 8 foot tall mylar reflectors to help increase the solar heating. Here’s a link to my 2004 diary if you want to read more about it.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2004&grower=15979&action=L

Mark

11/21/2005 7:53:30 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Thanks, Shannon Peace Wayne

11/21/2005 8:11:01 AM

Cottage Grove, MN

So I told my wife Jo I wanted a "Hoe" for Christmas, should have seen her face! Thanks alot Shannon....

11/23/2005 1:39:36 PM