From

Location

Message

Date Posted

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

I went with a friend yesterday for wine supplies. On our way back home, We saw a maintanence truck from a local town filled with compost. Since the temp at the time was about 20 degrees F the compost was steaming. We asked the worker from this town if we could have some of the compost for our gardens. My friend, even though it is a brand new truck was willing to fill his truck with this compost. But, the town employee being honest and very friendly said that he could not give us the compost that it had to go to the site where they dump it and that we would have to talk to town officials and get their permission before he was allowed to give us any. That was unlikely since he was on his way to dump this compost when we saw him. Kind of sad that such good compost is going to waste. Just an observation I guess. Ya can't do much about government red tape.

12/9/2005 9:28:28 AM

ENGLAND

Similar thing here. Guys collecting leaves in the village and said they could not dump the load at my place and had to take the load and dump it at the council depot 6 miles away. Cost of fuel to dump leaves off here would be a fraction of the cost of taking the load to the depot then returning to carry on collecting the leaves. Were they taking the leaves to a composting site ? I don't know, but i will ask next time i see them.

Regards
Mike

12/9/2005 10:37:57 AM

Romney West By God Virginia

Yes, sad indeed. I asked at our local landfill if they compost yard waste and the woman looked at me as if I was speaking another language. She said that everything gets put in the dump, yard waste and all. They charge a little over $60 a ton to use the dump. My guess would be they would rather make that money then composting yard waste and charging a nominal fee for a truck load.

12/9/2005 11:25:26 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

It has to do with Taxes paid in the Townships. We lived in a township that had Mountains of Compost. You had to show proof of residence to have access. Please be aware the Municipal Compost although good is uncontrolled as to what gets composted. Many of the Yard Mowing place dump there clippings there. The clippings are contaminated with 2-4-D which does not break down during composting. We had this issue with some clippings this summer.

12/9/2005 11:45:59 AM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

Ditto
My dad used clippings and was unable to grow any pumpkins

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=40582

(Does anyone know how long his patch is tainted?)

12/9/2005 12:11:16 PM

Syracuse, NY

i wonder if there was anything
fungus or insect in nature that took over
the area....beyond that, i'm a dummy....eric

12/9/2005 1:00:12 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Our landfill does a great job of composting, but they won't
sell it, due to some sort of red tape. They allow the city to
use it, but I guess they don't want the potential liability
if I were to use it and find it contaminated, etc...

2-4-D should break down over a few months. My dandelions
start growing again about a month after application........................

12/9/2005 2:17:47 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

It is still sad but at least it isn't only happening to me. I guess it pertains to town/city ordinances. Pumpkin Mike is right, they would save some money if they kept it local. In my case they didn't even have to move. We would have put it right into the truck and saved them gas and cost of the landfill. But rules are rules and laws are laws.

12/9/2005 2:23:56 PM

addison Il

We have a large area in our town with a bunch of mulch which if you go to the back of the pile its all composted well but im not going to take it as it came from the citys brush collection and even though the mulch and stuff is finely grounded theres probably pest and such that i have no wish to put into my garden im going to buy my compost in the spring.

12/9/2005 2:26:33 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Dakota Gary,

I looked at your pictures. I doubt that the situation is all
that bleak... I'd get a soil test, for sure. I'd do something
to improve the soil's "tilth"... and just be sure to avoid
any 2-4D in the future.

You're already growing plants. I had a problem with fruit
aborts, when I used too much fresh manure in the spring.
Too much nitrogen can be bad. Not saying that that is the
case here, but, just fishing for ideas. After the soil test,
all you've got to do is do some good pruning on your plants
and get them to focus on growin' fruit!

Regards, Cliff

12/9/2005 2:30:24 PM

Mulino, Oregon

All redtape aside, perhaps the problem isn't 2,4 D. It actually has a very short half life. Perhaps the problem is actually with Confront or 'clopyralid'in the compost. This is a very effective herbicide used in residential and commercial turf areas. It does not break down via composting. Oregon and Washington have both banned the product except for golf courses who are regenerating their clippings. 2,4D should be broken down in about 2-3 weeks. As far as the compost is concerned, if it is clean. I wouldn't give up, make the calls necessary, perhaps you can acquire it for free, which is the AG growers best price!

12/9/2005 4:22:04 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

I just remember how to test for it...Germinate radish seeds.

12/9/2005 4:46:14 PM

Ohio

Im lost on the 2,4D. Whats 2,4D stand for?

Brooks

12/9/2005 4:48:56 PM

Nashville, TN

Hmm, here in TN - most of the tree trimming for the utilities is done by private contractors - who are more than HAPPY to save some money and dump it on private land... We received over 25 loads of woodchips and one load of cut wood (for our open fire pit - love those roasted hotdogs!!) All FREE!!

And at our landfills, they have seperate areas for woodchipping and composting.. then make a tidy profit since people PAY to dispose of the stuff - then gardners/landscapers come and PAY to pick it up!!

Maybe if you all did a study of the revenue that TN makes off it - you can convince your local governments to do the same...

Money talks.....

12/9/2005 5:06:00 PM

Nashville, TN

Was thinking about the guy that couldn't grow stuff in the wood compost.. Good change there was walnut - or a related species - in the woodchips... Walnut produces a natural herbicide - thus, NEVER use it where you want to grow something in the next few years!!

12/9/2005 5:07:47 PM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

We did do a standard soil test, and that did not show excess nitrogen. The test we did didn't really show up any herbicides. . .is there a test for that? If its Confront or 'clopyralid or some slow degrading chemical, I don't know what approach would work. . .hopefully most things will leach through in a year or so

12/9/2005 5:10:34 PM

Midwest

Who's gonna know? It's not dishonest for an employee to give some stuff away that others want to get rid of anyway? I mean, most towns don't sell this stuff, do they?

12/9/2005 7:37:48 PM

ENGLAND

A&L Canada Laboratories have a Analysis Package for Contaminants, Herbicides is included in the following section http://www.alcanada.com/compost/ser_ONcompost.html#

I imagine all the A&L Laboratories have the above Contaminants Testing procedure available.

Regards
Mike

12/10/2005 3:55:44 AM

ENGLAND

I had to go to the A&L Canada Lab's Website, while i was there i found the following.........
CONTAMINANT ANALYSIS
Description of Test and Pricing: Herbicides
Clopyralid: $150.00
Picloram: $150.00

Submission Form Link/Info:
Call us at (519) 457-2575 or email us at [email protected] if you are interested in having your compost tested.

Regards
Mike

12/10/2005 4:08:53 AM

[email protected]

Mike,
2,4-D is a phenoxy type herbicide used to selectively control dicot weeds in lawns (graases are monocots). Our Pumpkins are dicots (2 cotyledons).

2,4-D is the least of our concerns with respect to municipal compost. It disipates in a few weeks. But Triclopyr, clopyralid, dicamba, etc might last as long as a year in soil & thus can cause problems.

12/10/2005 7:36:18 AM

[email protected]

*Brooks* see above. Sorry.

12/10/2005 7:36:53 AM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

I don't think I'm ready to spend $150 to test for 1 possible contaminant

But I sure appreciate the collaboration of your minds on this.

I think Dad can at least partially switch pumpkin area with sweet corn area. I doubt lawn products are harmful to corn, but I fear getting chemicals into foodstuffs also.

12/10/2005 3:00:34 PM

[email protected]

Lawn grasses & corn use the same herbicides since both are monocots.

That said I have little concern that lawn herbicides would significantly affect pumpkins even if a long residual herbicide was used on a small portion of the clippings.

12/11/2005 12:16:19 AM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

Again, thanks Steve!

12/11/2005 5:58:02 PM

Nashville, TN

It's not actually a man-made herbicide.. hmmm something related to the Tannin family. Trying to remember the specific name from that College Horticulture class I had taken... Can't believe that I can't recall it!

It's also the same chemical that'll kill a horse if he consumes the walnut...

Damn.. I'll remember the name one of these days!

I do recall that it is very slow to decompose in nature. But this is why you can't garden under a bunch of Walnut trees either - they actually 'poison' the soil to give themselves an addvantage in nutrient availability.

12/12/2005 5:38:36 PM

Norton, MA

Same with pignut (shagbark hickory) trees, yet pines flourish under them. AleX Noel.

12/12/2005 8:36:08 PM

[email protected]

Juglone.

12/12/2005 8:57:43 PM

[email protected]

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html

12/12/2005 8:58:43 PM