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Knopp, Germany

This question is directed to any growers that where stuck in the 500-700 pound range for a year or more (3 for me now). I am asking because, I am really not sure if once you understand patch prep, pruning, proper water supply, have the right seeds, and always need that elusive ounce of luck, if there is something you might have done different that year?

Is there anything that you remember doing different when you finally broke the 1000 pound barrier? Was the weather just extremely kind that year? Do you think it might have had something to do with the seed(s) you planted? Did you move to a new patch that year? Anything else?

thanks,
owen

1/23/2006 7:38:00 AM

Massillon, Ohio

i felt it was "lucky" seeds because i did the same thing for 4 years pretty much. (ok well my 1st year i was clueless but after that i did the same things). i'll let you know when i figure out the secret because i'm pretty much clueless at this point.

1/23/2006 7:48:11 AM

Rhode Island

seriously speaking owen. there was nothing done differently the year we each broke the 1,000 lb mark other than a different seed line up.
i truely believe that seed choice, plant and soil maintenance, plus weather plays the major roll.

who really knows what that one piece of the puzzle really is ?
personally i can say we have lost more big pumpkins then we ever brought to a weigh off ,so hang in their.

keep doing the right things and you will breach that barrier.
pap

1/23/2006 9:08:21 AM

Knopp, Germany

Thanks Kristy and Dick. I guess I am worried that this year will be a repeat of the othrs. I reread my notes and diaries from the last 3 years, and am just not sure what to do different, maybe I shouldn't do anything and just be happy with 500-700 pounds?

I know that there isn't any one secret, and after 3 years of serious growing, I know that it takes a lot of hard, persistent work. It's just that I noticed from some research I did, that a lot of the growers that we consider to be HH's all started out similiar to how I described, then bam, one year they broke through, and have been doing it pretty consistently ever since. I thought that perhaps the year they broke through, that they tried something different, or concentrated on one area more then the other.

This year I am going to focus on plant maintenance in the hope of keeping a mildew free plant with hopefully enough good vegetation to support consistent growth in September. I am also going to try and get an earlier start, providing protection against frost, so that my plants will be at a size to support the growth during the 21 June - 7 July time frame. Sorta of like trying to burn the candle from both ends.

All thoughts, even constructive critisism is welcome.

owen

1/23/2006 9:46:45 AM

Antigonish,Nova Scotia,Canada

Owen, you're over-due for a great break in the weather this upcoming season. That's probably your only missing link.....patience is a virtue......you certainly seem to do have done all the proper things.
Best of luck in '06.....you can bet that we will all be bugging you again for your 1000 lb plus seeds next fall.Bonne chance,
Bill

1/23/2006 9:56:55 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I've had the same thoughts. This will be what, my 5th year?
Last year I had my best, a 597. But, I truly enjoy it. I'll
be at it again and again even if I never get to 1000. But
I do think that I can get there. The state record is 847, and
that was set in a place colder than mine... So I'll keep at
it.

To give you perspective, we've had 30's at night, in JUNE in
each of the last 4 years!

On the other hand, it appears that our pattern of drought
has finally eased, and we should have a different pattern
this year. Well, I can dream, can't I?

On the technical side, I need soil with the right "tilth",
the right breathability, the right structure, to get me
20 or more pounds per day in August. At least that's what
I think.

1/23/2006 10:19:30 AM

Austria

Owen, you missed 800 this year only by a few lbs. If I`m right on the figures that means you bettered your pb by more than 150 lbs. even with an unproven squash seed. Add that to your new pb and you are in the 1000 lbs. range. With good weather and a bit of luck, the right seed choices I think you can make it this year. Nevertheless this is a very interesting topic.

1/23/2006 10:58:58 AM

Indiana

Christy,
What seeds did you grow your best fruit on again this year? LOL

Tom

1/23/2006 11:43:03 AM

Mocksville, NC

owen sombody did a search here , and the outcome said at about 32 to 38 days the grower reached there 50% mark at year end wieght my guess would be to push without slitting until you reach between 30 and 40 days alot of growers reponded with exact day they reached 1/2 ending wieght at season end so if your over 500 between 30, and 40 days. stands good chanch to breach 1000lbs Rog

1/23/2006 12:57:42 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Every year at the end of the season I make a "things to do
better next year" list. I wonder if folks wouldn't mind
sharing their lists? Anyway, my list may differ quite a bit
from yours:

1) Continue with organic matter. Amend the entire patch with
peat moss in the spring. Put lots of manure on, but only in
the fall.

2) Purchase a compost tea making system and use it properly.

3) Be more aggressive in pruning. I tend to do well early
in the year, but by the end, a few missed vines can turn
the plant into a jungle.

4) Get some well composted material to use when burying
vines. Take more time to bury vines properly.

5) Try using Agro-K products. Hopefully this will help keep
the leaves healthy.

Since that time, I'm also considering using a T-tape system,
so that I don't need to use so much overhead watering. My
older leaves look terrible by the end of the year.

1/23/2006 1:51:01 PM

Norton, MA

My big changes wil be:

1. DON'T DROWN YER PLANTS FOR GOODNESS SAKE! (When the frogs move from your neighbors pond to under your leaf canopy you know it's bad)

2. Use proper fungicedes.

As for your 1000+ Owen: Don't worry about splits if that's held you back before. (I'll be able to actually tell anybody from personal experience later this year hopefully!). Good Luck, AleX Noel.

1/23/2006 6:59:47 PM

Massillon, Ohio

ok ok i have to admit: for seeds, "go beachy" genes and reach 1000 twice over in 1 year. works in ohio i guess.

1/23/2006 7:32:18 PM

Team Munson

personaly Owen you need to find other growers who are growing giants in your area. Get ahold of them and talk to see if you may stop in from time to time to see what they are doing. I have learned more from visiting other growers patches than all the seminars I have attended. You may also want to invite them to your patch to get their comments and views. Find as many other growers as possible to do the same with network together and all will see their weights increase.

1/23/2006 7:34:56 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Relative nu-B who would be happy with 500-700 and hopefully will make it this year. My heavy clay soil is making steady "tilth" improvements due to compost, manure, and leaf additions...and molasses. I will continue to do the "right things" and hopefully avoid past mistakes. Persistence is the key for me...I think. Help that is readily available here has been the key for me so far in my improvements...both in soil and personal knowledge. Thanks again to all. Oh yeah a whole bunch of great seeds from you guys too(and gals)!!! Peace, Wayne

1/23/2006 8:02:34 PM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

How many lbs does an AGRO-K program gain you over manure?

1/24/2006 12:19:49 AM

Knopp, Germany

Thanks everyone for the ideas and sharing what you are doing. I am looking forward to this season like it was my first. I will take all of the advice here, and wish you all a new personal best this year.

thanks again,
owen

1/24/2006 1:11:02 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Here in colorado even growing an average size fruit requires much care and innovation, as without a total dedication to your plants and soil prep, and prep for our horendus weather conditions here where I live you will not so much as maybe produce a 300 pounder even with a silver bullet seed if you are lucky. I think it takes a lot of time and dedication and years of experience to pop a giant fruit, at least here in colorado. this will be my 12th year growing, and the 1000+ range continues to elude me, as 1000 has only been broken once here in colorado, and that was back in 2000 by another very seasoned grower here, whom also can not seem to hit that magic 1000 number.lol...Maybe 2006 will be the year we break 1000 among one of us colorado growers, as 5 years has been a long wait, and who knows maybe a new state record...We will see...Happy growing to all..JK

1/24/2006 3:22:41 AM

Knopp, Germany

James,

Thanks for putting things into perspective. You and your fellow Colorado growers certainly do put up with extreme conditions.


owen

1/24/2006 4:28:28 AM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

Good soil, good seeds, good garden maintenance & pray for good weather. We had all four last year & we finally broke through the elusive barrier. We also grew a new Canadian record watermelon.

Phil

1/24/2006 6:39:27 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

As for Agro-K, I have not used it. But others have seen good
results from it... I understand that it's an all natural
product, which is what I intend for my soil. This might be
a good topic for another thread.

1/24/2006 10:03:25 AM

[email protected]

Owen,

Try not to seek the silver bullet solution as most growers do. There is no secret solution. We are only able to grow as well as the weakest link allows. I don't believe that the answer is going to be found in a bottle.

Find the weakest link. Then decide *IF* it can be repaired.

After years in the same patch it might be a nutrient deficiency but is much more likely to be a viral or fungal pathogen that has steadily become elevated. As your skill level improves a pathogens population might be negating the results of your effort. So while you think you're stuck on a plateau, the truth is you might be making a great accomplishment in the face of an ever increasing adversary. Have you performed in-season tissue nutrient analysis? Do you occasionally have a pathological examination of necrotic tissues at the end of summer to find out if there are some pathogenic elements at work? How about a soil pathogen screen for Fusarium & Rhizoctonia?

There could be a lack of sunlight so do an honest sight appraisal & determine whether you have enough hours of direct sun to support your goals.

Are you really tracking the natural precipitation & making up the difference every single week? Up to 600 gallons per plant per week is a LOT of water.

I see all of this locally but it is hard to make an honest assessment since the reality of it takes years to express itself. Indeed I have come upon the realization that this is true in my own patch & so for this reason, will not grow AGs here again. I must find a better location instead.

These are hard evaluations to make honestly & the results can be much harder to accept if we have no other place to grow.

I hope you find the weakest link in a place that you can reach it.

1/24/2006 10:45:10 AM

Knopp, Germany

Hope you find a new patch soon Steve.

1/24/2006 11:10:33 AM

Eastern Pennsylvania

Tremor, even if you don't have confidence in your patch at the moment to go huge, don't you want to grow for fun?

1/24/2006 12:00:42 PM

Midwest

Owen:

I curious after reading your question and the good info that follows, what your plans are in 2006? Based on your 3 years of experience can you add anything that others are doing to reach your goal? Here's some ideas from this post... tissue pathogen test, one more soil test, change your fertilizer program, begin the fungicide program earlier, use ice around the blossom before/after pollination, mist, get a Beachy seed or get a 'lucky' seed, rid soil pathogens, pray for the weather, bury vines with well-composted material, increase sunlight, provide frost protection, find a local pumpkin grower friend, add red wiggler worms, prune and space vines, water (600gal/wk). I would like to hear what you are planning to do.

Greg

1/24/2006 3:40:42 PM

Liverpool , England

Owen,
I grew a 500lber in 1995 and a 700lber in 1997. Took me 8 more years to crack 1000lb. What did I do different? Well I held back on the feed thats the only change really, except for letting the sun warm the pumpkin more during the day by keeping a dark cover draped over it.

Alun

1/24/2006 4:11:10 PM

ENGLAND

Alun
I also think your Pumpkin Road Trip in 2004 and your visits to the Niagara Meetings also helped you jump the 300 Lb to go over 1000 Lbs. And not forgetting that magical 1068 Seed you planted in Spring 2005 !!

Regards
Mike

1/24/2006 4:41:47 PM

Syracuse, NY

"I hope you find the weakest link in a place that you can reach it." as always, good one, Tremor!
i have been fortunate enough this coming year to still have
my greenhouse frame up. it is about 230 feet long and is basically just like the ones Joel Holland makes that
is a 16 X 16, but mine is a continuous
230-foot X 20-foot one, lol. it will only take a day or two to make it "covering-ready"!
in 2002 and 2003, i had bought and put up floating row cover as protection from the wind, PM and insects.
well, it worked, but i had never bought enough of it to cover the ENTIRE thing, only the first 100 feet. money issues, you know....
well, the insects were kept outta there and the PM affected all of the plants except the ones inside the FRC area.
in 2003, there was some problem with fruit rotting from seemingly the inside out, but i did make a lot of nice crosses (once i get "pumpkin-famous" i will have a lot of past years' seeds for everyone, lol),
but only a 510.5 that year, 2003.

1/24/2006 5:14:45 PM

Syracuse, NY

it WAS a great pumpkin, but i have been trying to get over my PB of 728.5 ever since 2001 with the 845 Bobier.
in '04 and '05, i never really got the FRC
up>>> caution to the wind!
long story short, i have always leaned toward growing too many plants, falling short of having the necessary
elements such as fertilizer, time and fortitude,
as well as things like RoundUp and similar late-season
amendments, when self-confronted with the arduous task of
carrying the "weight" of a now-it-seems-to-me oversized crop of 10-12 plants and maybe a few of my own seeds growing at the neighbors' and assisting with their efforts as well.
in other words: I BITE OFF MORE THAN I CAN CHEW.
so, this year, i will be planting the best seeds i can muster, and fewer of them, so they can enjoy a great deal more care and attention than ever before.
if i do start running low on enthusiasm, i will divert all my attention to the ones that look like they may
go over the top, which i have never been able to do before,
as i have felt "bad" for not having been able to cover them all equally. i have not done BADLY, but have not done
nearly as well as i could have. fewer plants, better care!EG

1/24/2006 5:14:59 PM

Knopp, Germany

Greg, there have been a lot of very good suggestions. There are 4 things that have been mentioned that I intend to concentrate on more this year. Have a pathogen test done, start earlier to try and get a bigger plant come pollinating time, do something about PM before it shows up, not after it is there, and have a patch tour so that other growers can take a look at what I am doing, and maybe see something that I am blind to.

Thanks for posting Alun and Mike. I expect big things from both of you this year.

Eric, I am going with 6 plants which should be manageable. I don't remember the last time I took a vacation away from the patch in the summer time. I spend time every day doing something, weeding, pruning, burying, watering, and on and on.

1/25/2006 2:12:05 AM