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Santa Cruz, CA

Well, we've had three days of sun shine here in Santa Cruz, CA so I went to the patch, hoping to till and get the pumpkins started but the soil is still too wet. I had tilled half of the plot three weeks ago and now that soil is soaked and caked. When and if it dries out here, should I re-till the area I've already done? I'm afraid the rain has compacted the already tilled soil. Any advice? Thanks- Kristine

4/19/2006 12:38:33 PM

Midwest

Kristine: That depends on your soil. What you may be seeing is that crusty layer on top. What is the soil like? For instance, is your soil low in Calcium or high in fine clay, low in biology, or has bad drainage, then loosen it up by re-tilling. If you have good granular (flocculated) soil with a good amount of calcium, biologicals, etc... then maybe you should just loosen the top crust with a rake and not till it again. Tilling will loosen it up and increase the oxygen level in the soil temporarily but, over the season the soil will re-crust and oxygen will be cut off. There are ways to avoid that. Another thing to consider is keeping the worms around. Tilling will mess them up.

4/19/2006 2:01:09 PM

Montoursville, PA

Sounds like low organic content although I have never seen your soil or any close to it. The aged rule of thumb is to shoot for ten percent by volume organic matter. This is largely fall applied manures and a good winter cover crop. If you could find truly aged manure you can apply an inch anytime raking it into the top. A good straw or leaf mulch will help you anytime, to avoid many weeds and keep a nice fluffy surface. Some would disagree but my mulch is largely alfalfa hay suplimented with any other material I can get mostly free. My alfalfa just has not been run through the horse first. Therefor it still contains what the horse would have consumed to make horse and horse manure.

4/19/2006 3:13:23 PM

Puyallup, WA

My heart goes out to those growers whose only tool is a rototiller. I wish that you lived close enough so I could come over and run my field cultivator through your soil just once this Spring.

4/19/2006 6:24:36 PM

Syracuse, NY

i have heard that tilling too often and if it is too wet can do bad things to your soil, per Tremor i believe.

i suppose anything that can be done to increase the top-surface area exposure to the sun and wind would be beneficial.
what about putting a big piece of plastic down (the size of the growing area, like 20' X 100') as is denoted in the Joel Holland videos.....it may take a long time, but
apparently it works, and THAT combined with any of these other ideas might help it along....the plastic does not have to be super-duper, but probably like 4-mil thick and
at least 20 X 20 feet? anyone else? eric g

4/19/2006 7:01:37 PM

Syracuse, NY

...the plastic prevents any additional rainwater from getting into the soil, warms and therefore dries the soil, and i think you might wanna put objects such as maybe playground balls or similar down under the
well-secured plastic (CLEAR) to allow for under-the-plastic ventilation. i think this might be known as "solarization".

4/19/2006 7:05:25 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

I find that with my silty creek bottom soil, raised mounds keep the planting area dry, warm, loose and mellow, even with a lot of rain. I am in the process of expanding my mounds with a fork, so I don't chop up my worms. I am making them oval shaped, so the main vine has more mound to run across for less stress. I use a pre-plant shot of glyphosate to control early weeds, and wait until later to till, when the vines really start to spread. By then the soil is warmer and drier, and the worms are down deep below the tiller depth. I also use lots of mulch for weed control, adding organic material, and preserving mositure. One tillage pass per year only seems to work fine. The worm holes help to provide better internal drainage in the soil.

4/19/2006 11:07:34 PM

Santa Cruz, CA

Thanks for all the sound advice. My organic matter on my soils tests shows 8%. This is only my second year amending the soil with manure and my calcium after gypsum sitting in soil over the winter is 70.2% on the Cation Saturation. We had favas in as a cover crop and some clover. I've only had enough clear weather to till in half the cover and there is rain expected again on Saturday. I've weed wacked the favas to 4". Maybe I should turn the other half by hand. I did notice a drop in my worm count after tilling. If it's not dry enough by Friday to turn the soil, I'm going to put plastic down. Thanks again- Kristine

4/20/2006 12:38:56 AM

Deer Park WA

LOL Stan, I rebuilt my old 1933 Van Brunt CC Cultivator and WOW what a classic tool! Remember its the one I bought for $25.00 at a farm auction 2 years ago, I put the roto tiller back in the barn! Creekside, if the soil is really wet running over it will compact it and drive out all the oxygen, I would be patient and let it dry ou then till it as deep as possible. Side note I am finding that tilling trashes the soil and its eco-system using a cultivator is a lot like turning the soil by hand with a pitch fork (the worms will thank you).

4/20/2006 12:45:46 AM

Santa Cruz, CA

What's the difference between a cultivator and a tiller?

4/20/2006 12:52:52 AM

Sloughhouse, CA

Another question what's the difference between a cultivator, tiller and disc?

4/20/2006 12:59:07 AM

Napa Valley, CA

Kristine, I think a lot of us in northern California are in the same boat. Too wet or muddy to till.
Rains have finally let up so its drying quickly. If you still can't till in Santa Cruz, you should concentrate on turning your centers. Try to turn a 4' to 6' diameter area at each planting site with a flat blade pitchfork. If you do this now, those sites will be dry enough for your seedlings in a few weeks. If you till or turn the rest of the patch in a week or two when its a little dryer, your soil should be ready in time.

4/21/2006 4:07:39 AM

Midwest

Kristine: Well, you should rake off that compacted soil on the 1/2 that was tilled for sure. That's definitely got to go! I agree with geo.... about turning over a 6ft circle around your planting mound/pit. Later when the soil dries you can do the rest unless you've planned to ammend with compost,etc... Hope you get another couple of dry sunny days.

4/21/2006 1:51:26 PM

Santa Cruz, CA

I just went and spent two hours in the patch and turned my centers. The last few days of dry weather have really helped. Things are looking up. I hope to get our mini green houses up this weekend. Thanks again all for the wonderful advice!!!- Kristine

4/21/2006 3:13:46 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

1951 Ford 8N tractor is the ONLY way I can deal with my
heavy clay soil.

4/22/2006 1:10:44 AM

Montoursville, PA

Cliff.............can't you squeeze in some more manures and consistent cover crops. Plowing will build soil better than tilling but may take a little longer. If you can load up the organic content and it can break down you will relieve the heavy clay factors. Using old soiled hay for mulch would help too...several different ways. I know your area and realize you, in no way relate, to my local situation yet the solutions remain largely the same.

4/23/2006 10:23:38 AM