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Owensboro, Ky.

Not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings...but...I saw photos of a cup over a female, saying that this was the way to make a controlled pollination. Don't bugs know how to fly up inside the cup and get into the flowers???? Hope I am wrong and that this method works....will sure save me a lot of work...all info appreciated!!! Peace, Wayne

6/20/2006 12:02:28 AM

Ca

I don't know how well that works. This is the method I use. Every night I check the fruits and flowers and then I cover those that are about ready to bloom. I use small zip lock bags for the fruits. I put the bags over the flower and fruit and then I zip them shut down on the stem. I use rubber bands for the male flowers. After I pollinate the fruits early in the morning,I put rubber bands on the female flowers.

6/20/2006 12:39:37 AM

Wayne, the LaRue's use the cups,,,

6/20/2006 6:04:03 AM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

I use clothes pins. They work great. Just clip them on the night before & when your ready in the morning, take them off, pollinate your fruit & clip them back on. It's a good idea to use them on your male flowers as well. We want to make sure our crosses are pure.

Phil

6/20/2006 8:11:18 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Copper, Does it hurt the flowers in anyway? THe clothes pin sounds intriging. I was going to try a cable tie but its a one time use and expensive. The twine was a possiblity too, but Im wanting to try your method. Also does anyone find that the plastic bag may tend to not allow the flower to breath....or sufficate it...just wondering.

6/20/2006 10:11:35 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Tendrils work excellent also...plus there seems to be some always near by.

6/20/2006 10:59:25 AM

Syracuse, NY

all good ideas, but i remember one time i used a VERY small
paper bag from a hardware store for
little nuts and bolts to "cover" a female...
the next morning, there were two or three cuke beetles
hangin' around in there with pollen stuck to their chins!
so i will never use anything that does not completely seal the flowers. i believe the ZipLoc bag method does not allow the flower to breathe and keeps the heat in, just like a mini-greenhouse. so, not using it.

Styrofoam cup? no, because cukers know how to climb up a stem to get at the goods.
anyway, i cannot disclose who made them for me
publicly, but somebody once made for me some little nylon mesh baggies (drawstring) that are PERRRRFECT.
anyone can stop-in at a local fabric store and get some material, JUST like the stuff used to make little candy baggies they have at weddings and tie it together at one end, a piece about 7 inches long---hmmmm, it would have to be sort of a tube to begin with.
well, that is the material to use, in any event, lol...
one could sew it together along that seam and you would have material for the entire season.
OKAY---so you would then tie one end of it shut and put the open end of it over the female flower and pumpkin-to-be.
put a really, really small rubber band around the base of the little pumpkin bud and you'd be allll set. no bugs,
flower can OPEN FULLY and there is no overheating.
once the flower is pollinated, it is best to use a
ZIP-TIE to close 'er up. nothing works better! done. EG

6/20/2006 6:23:48 PM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

It doesn't hurt the flowers at all. Just pinch the tip of the flower together though.

Phil

6/21/2006 6:50:16 AM

[email protected]

I've taken some heat for criticizing the upside down cup method since some very accomplished growers use this technique. But like Eric, I've seen insects inside flowers protected by cups. So we can drop as many heavy hitter names as we want - inverted foam cups DO NOT insure closed pollinations.

So I will continue that mantra. Upside down cups = open pollinations.

Zip-Loc sandwich bags proved no better since the zipper cannot be entirely closed which leaves open access to crawling insects & very small fliers like gnats.

So I relied on clothes clips a couple years but soon discovered that the flower petals often rip & tear.

My wife suggested the nylon netting that women often use for craft projects but I found the holes too large. Small flying critters were able to walk right through the holes.

As difficult as they are to use, stockings secured with rubber bands seem to be the only sure fire way to obtain a real closed pollination.

If there is a better way I'd love to learn about it.

6/21/2006 7:11:22 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

I was told to use cheese cloth for the baggies but I suppose even those little jumping flea beetles could get into that too. Guess I be gettin on the wifes sowing machine........I like that idea the most then once made one could use it year after year after it is washed....

6/21/2006 9:08:23 AM

Long Island,New York

cheesecloth works great...it prevents the flowers from opening until its removed. Then, just use it as a piece of rope to tie it shut.

6/21/2006 10:55:21 AM

Mocksville, NC

I can clear this up, The idea was not mine, but the small styro foam cups are completly sealed by the open flower, also i said this is one way , not the only way! its alot easier on me i used to tie flowers clip flowers bag flowers, and they work great, and i also ripped holes in the flowers with all those mentioned. the idea came from:-
04 Elk grove seminar, In California, the guest speakers were Jack Larue, and Al Eaton. Question to Al Eaton~ How do you cross pollinate~ Quote i used to tie off years ago, but i now use these white coffee cups, the one he was holding in his hand, he also stated he has never seen a bee or bug even try to get in. Quote~ i have sat for hours watching, and bees, and bugs fly right on bye, the only time a bee will land is when it sees a flower, it will fly right up to it and nose dive right in. Thats the years the 1446 Eaton, and 1420 Larue were grown. You can prob get the DVD from the Elk grove group or any California group. It's very informative, and enlighting. So what i'm saying is do what works best for you, as far as myself would i plant the 1446 or 1420 you bet your butt i would. Roger

6/21/2006 7:59:41 PM

ordinary,VA

good enough for me

6/21/2006 9:21:40 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Are bee's the only insects that transfer pollen? Peace, Wayne
Different insects in different parts of the good ole' US of A...another good learning experience here on BP.com!!!!!

6/21/2006 11:04:22 PM

Dallas, Oregon

stay away from the cups, as stated before bees can climb right up.cups can also be blown off. zip locks are the ticket. just point blossom into one of the corners and zip right up to the stem,easy with great protection.

6/22/2006 12:19:31 AM

Central Ca

I second the zip locks. It works like a charm.

6/22/2006 2:17:57 AM

ordinary,VA

I stopped using ziplock 2 years ago foud insects in side the flower with just a ziplock bag.
next i went with the tie method that works great unless the flower tears below the tie.
this year i keep the intire plant covered with cicada netting (5/32 X 5/32)mesh with the cup method.
been off all week living in the patch have not seen any problems.
left one female open to see if any insects could get to her. the flower was checked 6 different times in one day with no signs of insects. could i have missed the bugs sure. the female wasnt pollinated or the pollination didnt take if the insects got to her.
so far so good on the females that have been hand pollinated.
should i list my palnts as open pollinations
or ivory pollinations 99.44/100% pollinations.
Hope everyone grows a PB. good luck to all.

6/22/2006 11:30:03 AM

Mocksville, NC

Wayne yes cuke beetles are pollinators too!But not as effective, as bees.
This is for Ed, Not only did i find bugs, It was a water balloon from are humidity we have here needless to say it aborted, male pollen was wet too, Differant climates may play a roll in the way that works best for any grower. the term grower verified cross, means the male, and female have been protected, and done by the grower how thats done doent matter. for me after useing Al's Method with the cups I pollinated every thing never seen a bug or bee in flowers,or pollen missing,and none on the female and yes you can see it, and had 100% fruit set, even in temps above 90+ and i put a P on the cup with a marker, because there have been many times raising 6 or more plants i didnt know if i had pollenated or not. It made my work much easier. It works for me! Thats what counts. I wish you all the best of luck, and all have a personal best this year!

6/22/2006 4:38:42 PM

ordinary,VA

so far so good here Roger.

6/22/2006 5:20:02 PM