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Indiana

Ive noticed numerous pictures in the diaries with pumpkins bent over toward the vine, some the main vine is still buried. Has anyone else noticed this? Dont forget to get the main vine raised up, cut the roots when you need to. The earlier the better. You will have less problems in the coming weeks. I start with styrofoam or even peices of 2x4 under the stem of the pumpkin and vine and add peices as needed.
Steve

7/21/2006 10:43:51 AM

ENGLAND

Steve. Remember though that a lot of Growers 'roll' the still small Pumpkin/Squash over toward the vine just a little to aid better stem/vine position later in the season. However, it is quite scarey to see some Pumpkins/Squash with vines still burried at the Stem to vine juncture when 3/4 the size of a Basket Ball.

Good early warning though Steve.
Regards
Mike

7/21/2006 11:02:08 AM

No Place Special

Looking for some pics of what happens to mature pumpkins that had vines that were not properly lifted off the ground to avoid or reduce stem stess, I have found a couple prime examples. 873 Andrews 04'. http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=30229 The stem on this pumpkin is pulled downward and pointing at the ground instead of being parallel to the ground. Maybe this pumpkin would have been in trouble if it would have been closer to 1000 lbs, or maybe with better care / stem and vine positioning it would have made 1000 lbs.
http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=30224
in this picture you see how the stem is pulled down. If given proper care it would be pointing straight out. Had this pumpkin been huge, it could have started ripping itself from the vine.

7/21/2006 11:36:10 AM

No Place Special

http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28353
Here is a good example of proper vine and stem positioning. See how high these vines come off the ground when the stress is releaved. This picture tells why the roots on the main near the pumpkin and some on the close side vines need to be cut.

7/21/2006 11:44:35 AM

No Place Special

http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=43674

Stem pointing out for the most part = World Record

7/21/2006 11:56:16 AM

Alex, IN

I see what your sayng Mike, but some fruit just grow with the stem that way. My 670 fruit this year has had the roots cut and vines lifted and the stem is still not straight out of the fruit. But if the vine is still buried around the fruit I would be getting very worried!

Mikkal

7/21/2006 2:43:40 PM

Long Island,New York

You pumpkin stem can point any direction you want it as long as there's no appreciable stress....stress to the point of tears or anything that will restrict the flow to the fruit. To say there was stress on a stem because the stem points down to the vine is ludicrous and irresponsible. The stem on the 818 (not the 873) was blocked up with styrofoam chunks and under no stress all season long.As a matter of fact it was attached at a Stelts 90 and the styrofoam was mostly to keep the vine steady in the wind because there were two stelts 90's within 5 feet of each other until I culled a second fruit....leaving me with about 7 ft of vine swinging!! Mike...try again.

7/21/2006 3:35:25 PM

No Place Special

Just an example of what "looks" like poor stem management. Ok I never seen it in person but was just an example I came across. Its still my opinion that a stem being pulled downward is a bad situation to let ones pumpkin get into, just my opinion. In my experience, the smaller pumpkins at fairs and contests usually have the stems pulled down and I have seen many field AG pumpkins and pumpkins grown by rookies rip themselves right off the vines. This post was nothing against you Glen just some pics to help the new guys out and give them a visual of what Steve is talking about. Your style or whatever you call it seems to work fine for you! :)

7/21/2006 3:54:26 PM

No Place Special

Mikkal, I see what your saying and yes some do tend to go downward more than others. Just cutting the roots is not enough (my opinion). Even with roots cut, the weight of the vine will still pull downward on the stem. Over a period of about a week I think raising the vine off the ground with blocks, foam or whatever you have and feel comfortable using is the best thing to do. Think about how tall these AGS can get compared to what mother nature intended.

7/21/2006 4:02:02 PM

Rhode Island

stem management? that stem in all my years of growing has done one thing ( what ever it wanted )
yes we cut plenty of tap roots, yes we turn the pumpkin for as close to 90 degrees off the vine as is possible ( some stems are short and its more difficuly ti turn, these sometimes end up being pulled down toward the vine because they are not long enough to support the vine as the fruit tries to lift )
lastly we always try and pull the fruit back off the vne if possible to allow more shoulder room.

heres a suggestion. hollow out the ground where the fruit will grow. place your belting or any material you uss under the fruit in the dug out area, then protect water from getting in the hole and see what happens.
this may or may not help stem stress but i bet it would produce that round pumpkin everyone thinks the ag is supposed to look like
pap

7/21/2006 5:42:34 PM

Long Island,New York

If you end up with stem stress issues in the up/down direction you can always prop the blossom end up a bit thereby lowering the stem to the vine. I find that roof insulation wedges they use for "crickets" very helpful sometimes. It creates havock with OTT measurements but works fine to protect the stems. Sliding the fruit back or forward once or twice as needed helps with the shoulder issues....harder to do on soil, less hard on sand, easiest on mill fabric that sits on a plywood base....or my "preferred" method>>two layers of mill fabric (with grooves in opposite directions for slipperiest contact) on top of plywood. One guy can slide a 600lber with ease this way.(ok, relative ease if you wiegh 275 or more). One thing I also suggest is to put a wiggle in the side vines in the immediate proximity of the proposed keeper.....side vine curves immediately at the main really help slack up for any mid-season vine raising.
Lets face it...sometimes the best keeper doesn't work out and that 9ft out set that you didn't really expect to keep is your only game....poorly positioned, not really raised and curved mains....some of these "tricks" may help you save the season.

7/21/2006 6:11:26 PM

Salmon Arm, BC

Glenn...good example of ease of movement with using two peices of mill fabric with the grain idea...I can move a 300-400 #person on a stretcher with some fabric that works on the same principle. And many thanks to Pap and Mike for the info on stem stress with examples...I find these kinds of posts very useful! I think everyone should remember......there are MANY different ways to do the same thing...think of them as tools and use what works best for you! I HATE being limited to just one right way of doing things. You guys ALL rock and I value ALL of your advice. Sincerely...Thank-you! Deb:)

7/21/2006 6:44:37 PM

No Place Special

Man the two pieces of mill fabric is the way to go no doubt! Makes moving/ positioning the fruit, even large fruit much easier. The idea is to get the vine in kind of a "V" shape to allow for shoulder growth between the pumpkin and the vine.

7/21/2006 6:59:33 PM