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Ray, North Dakota

What does everyone shoot for in their soil test for organic material. Also, what do you add to be considered organic material, manure, grass, leaves?

8/7/2006 4:29:00 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

all of the above..grass should be untreated (weed Killer) or well rotted.leaves should be maple or some other sugary source...most nut bearing trees should be avoided or well rotted..manure should be cow, or well rotted to avoid seeds...peat moss etc is accepted..if it was previously green before its organic material..or fungal..to much OM can lead to not enough mineral content..balance is everything...tought to get a good Cation number with to much OM. keep reading everything ya can..GrowEmBig! Chuck

8/7/2006 6:00:32 PM

Ray, North Dakota

wheat straw? soybean straw?

8/7/2006 7:19:44 PM

SF Bay Area, California

An excellent OM number is 15%. 10% is good but I think a minimum for competitive pumpkin growing. Over 20% I would consider excessive.

8/7/2006 9:09:44 PM

[email protected]

Age of organic matter is too little considered. Older is better...here's why.

Soil test protocols for %OM are goofy. Testing by ignition is just what it imples: the soil is weighed, then burned, then weighed again. Fresher organic *material* additions can yield a 20%+ level in April...then by October the same sample will test at a more stable 15%. "Older" stable organic matter soils can easily do well at 10%OM...while "newly amended" soils might do less at higher percentages.

We tend to jump into Giant growing quickly. We add tons of "stuff" often without proper composting. Hence we see extremely high test results (that are far from stable) & all manner of pathogens that later wreak havok on roots & buried stems (Fusarium anyone?).

Ideally we would buy or collect fresh organic material & manures, compost them properly ourself (or by a trustworthy composter - "what's that?") & then add them every fall in moderation using a minimum of tilling. After many years an ideal balance will result. This ideal balance can't be bought or built over several weekends.

I'm not saying that a productive patch can't be built in a season. But luck has a lot more to do with it. Better luck usually comes from patience or knowing a really good realtor.

8/7/2006 11:13:13 PM

Simi valley, ca

not necesarly do you have to have high organtic matter to grow huge pumpkins my first yr i grew a 872.5 in my unamended soil organtic matter was 3.5 aprox , but of course iv been trying to get it up there higher ever since , 2 more yrs

8/8/2006 12:09:01 AM

Nashville, TN

thankyou for such an in-depth explanation Tremor!

Everything Herbie mentioned would be considered 'organic matter'. The BEST garden soils are generally built from a combination of at least 2 or all of those 'products'. Each type has it's strengths and weaknesses - nutritionally speaking.

Have a question for Tremor: My rear patch is Approx 8,000 square feet. Have added manure over the last two winters - but I'm not at the black 'potting soil' consistancy like my 'mature' front gardens (9-10+ years of 3-4" added manure each winter). I've added up how much hay each of my 4 paddocks are consuming per month - which is close to the same weight as the manure produced from it. The paddock waste is scraped up into 10'X15' piles every 8 weeks - and these piles are turned every time they quit 'burning'. I believe in dumping the manure and/or compost onto the gardens during the fall/winter months. I've estimated that I will have about 15-17 tons of composted stuff to 'recycle' this year... How many tons can 8,000 square feet handle?

Now I have grown gourds right on top of 4'x8'x20' piles of straight composted manure for many years - with few problems. But GPs are a little more finicky...

8/8/2006 7:19:26 AM

Ray, North Dakota

Good stuff guys. Thanks again.

8/8/2006 8:14:19 AM

Montoursville, PA

No one knows the absolute answer to how much. Based on my experience I would not think that four to six inches, of the above mentioned partially made manure fall applied and tilled in would be just fine. Add molasses to boost your bacteria and follow with a cover crop. Agro-K has a product Symbex 4X that is a booster. When used with molasses quicker and better conversions take place both fall and spring. Molasses alone is a good booster. Together the combination dramatically improves the application and the resulting break down of the solids. This is even more true if you add large amounts of fall applied leaves.

When in doubt or in answer, to your question. Try different applications, of manures and leaves, to find your soils best response to these applications.

The percentage comments above concerning percent of OM are in the ball park. Repeating what has been said. It takes time like two to four years to build up and understand your specific soils needs. Anything that rots over winter is a good additive. What is in the plant material is all OK but some things are better than others. Old hay half rotted is better than horse manure....it was not run through the horse. You won't get much straw run through the animal. The mentioned straw is good but not best.

8/8/2006 9:16:03 AM

Wood River, IL ([email protected])

Great information guys. Thanks

8/8/2006 9:37:04 AM

[email protected]

I'd like a test-lab who analyzes both the mineral (chemical) analysis as well as a biological test of the C0 emissions. This would give the reader an idea of bacterial activity.

I'd REALLY like to see a standardized herbicide-content, weed seed & Fusarium & Phytophthora certification & reporting process.

In my dreams write? We have a guy who does this locally but his "Sweet-Peat" is crazy money. Manure, Peat & Leaves composted for 18 months or so. Clean & certified....but pricey delivered.

8/8/2006 12:22:38 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

CO emissions could also be from pathogens...alright the soil is alive but with what?

8/8/2006 9:08:22 PM

[email protected]

Hence my desire to see compost that is tested for pathogenic fungi with a printed certificate of results.

8/8/2006 11:21:49 PM