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Ontario, Canada.

As we begin fall patch prep I thought it might be best to begin discussion about soil nutrients. What lock's up what?
Are there any general rules of thumb that a grower should follow? I have been told by some agronomists that high soil OM conditions may tie up Ca. Is this possible? I sure as heck don't know, but darn would like to get to the bottom of my split problems here at home. I have run the gambit with other discussions about what causes this and low fruit weights. I have seen some patches that simply can't provide for thick walled fruit. What of high Ph. Does it greatly affect low weight pumpkins?

Water now there's another perplexing question. What is the pH of your water and do think it affects fruit size and nutrient uptake?

So many questions still after 5 years of this. The yellow brick road is not yet in sight.

Russ > Pumpkin Cruise Bound.

10/15/2006 10:27:38 AM

Buren Ameland,West Frisian Islands, Netherlands

Russ,
In English I am not so good in nutrician explanation, but let me have a try in explaining what I know and what my experience is.

1. I have got compliments about my strong and thick walled squash 685lb and pumpkin 518lb, but that is also through the seeds which are an important matter here.
2. The basic soil I have is white/yellow beachy sand only with a high Ph. So allmost ALL nutricience the pumpkin has, I bring in.
3. Every year the patch gets a big portion lime/chalk to bring the low Ph as much up as posible. Too much lime is impossible, do'nt worry about that. Too little brings problems on a low Ph ground.
4. My pumpkins have always corklines or corkframes when ripening, this is due to this lime gift as well as potassium and phosphorus, which I bring as extra chemicals only in autumn. This is a type of granulate which break down slowly.
5. In spring and summer time I NEVER put extra nutician else that some biological nutricians soluble in the irrigation water.
Take very much care about Nitrogen, this is releted with splits, espeacially chemical Nitrogen, but also (somehow)fresh dung whatever type. This makes leaves too weak and sensitive to greenflies and funghus and fruit go weak and rott too fast.

10/15/2006 12:50:36 PM

Buren Ameland,West Frisian Islands, Netherlands

6. I use one year old sheepdung, fishheads, seaweeds and gardenwaist (some -maple-leaves, grass, old flowerstems etc) as organic set up. Make the pile as big a possible and at the planting place of the Giant Pumpking dig this stuff up to 2-3feet in the soil. do it before christmas iff possilbe. All redundant and harmfull stuff can be washed away by the winter and spring rains. The soil will be nice in balance for a balanced fruit.

Question; what do you mean with high OM conditions?
Ca = Calsium , this makes other nutritions free, Lime/chalk = Calsium.
I my patch there are reasonably thick walled fruits, and Calsium I give so much though every years lime donation, so no tie up of Ca through OM conditions.

7. Rainwater is reansobly neutral, allways good. Heath it up for one or two days in the barrel and irrigate in the evening.
Ground water can have low Ph.
this year I used grondwater first time.
Something wens seriously wrong when I irrigateds it cold.
I never do that again: big mistake.
sometime I add some biological nutritions in the groudwater to bring it a bit more in 'balance' avoiding too high Ph, because my soil is very low Ph.
But the groundwater is mostly less a problem than the soil. Use rainwater as much as possilbe.

Russ, you catch something?

10/15/2006 12:51:00 PM

Buren Ameland,West Frisian Islands, Netherlands

Excuse one mistake sentence 5: beachy sand with LOW Ph.
Second Prelast sentence: avoiding to LOW PH, because my soil is very low Ph.

10/15/2006 12:56:54 PM

Ontario

calcium to magnesium ratio if too high/low then will tie up calcium russ. As for organic matter Bryan and myself have always had over 13 percent and with no problems. Again your organic level can be affected if your manure or compost hasn't broken down so % can be greatly effected depending if your organic is really green or broken down. Put alot of manure in along with leaves,molasses,and agricultural gypsium and she should be good. Our ph levels down here have always been above 7.1 no big deal. Keep it simple Russ, trying to over analyize things and plant proven seed, too many growers hung up on planting their buddies seed or their own. Try one or two of your own but then go with the proven stuff. Not sure how many plants you grow but when you only grow two and one in Bryan's case you can't chance a dud, got to go with the odds.

drew

10/15/2006 1:07:33 PM

[email protected]

Russ,

I will concur with what has been written.

We've also experienced a lot of splits - all on the stem end for whatever that is worth.

I don't believe that a missing element is responsible in our case. Rather it appears to be later (than ideal) pollinations & a less than steady growth pattern.

10/15/2006 7:07:06 PM

Montoursville, PA

This is one heck of a good line of information. This is all dern good basic reasoning.

Attempt to know the ideal moisture level and keep it consistant along with any nutrients of any type. I have been watching my growth patterns. Seems I was running low on available nutrients just when the plant was trying to perform it's major growth.

Available nutrients and minerals need to match the size and vigor of the plant. Growing a beautiful plant is fine but it must be understood that food and minerals must meet the needs of the fruit too.

10/15/2006 8:04:39 PM

Deer Park, WI

On Tremor's recommendation, I bought the book "Teaming with Microbes" I must say, my perspective on gardening has been completely changed by this text. Russ, I do believe this book could go a long ways in answering some of your questions, as well as influencing your approach to gardening. Its no accident that more and more growers have tossed the chemicals aside and are depending on the microbes to do the work. With healthy soil microbiology, you may not have to worry about what's tying up what and whose inhibiting who. Get this book!

10/15/2006 8:45:02 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Geez, I decided to come back to this post for a quick read and now I can't sleep. FOR ME JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS IS MOST FRUSTRATING. I truly thought I had this topic nailed with all the research I have done over the past two years. I began to coast as the Dog Days neared there end and BAM, just like a bee sting I was bitten by splitters all over my patches again this year.

I mostly attributed the recurrence as a problem during low humidity days which diverted the mass flow to the leaves and away from the sinks. Was I fooled during this period? Yes, the dill rings and deep ribs tricked me good. I watered until the cows came home but Humty still fell off the wall. I have come up with list of causes but I fear there maybe a soil key that I'm missing. My plan is now to add very little to my soil and upgrade my irrigation timer to allow for more daily misting intervals. I'm also beginning to investigate the roll that wind plays in leave transpiration. Wind breaks may play a more prominent roll in my patches in the future.

10/15/2006 11:16:33 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Never in three years at Cornerstone have we ever split a fruit! The interesting thing is we have never added any type of OM to the soil other than well decomposed manures that have been heavily screen and mixed thoroughly with the parent material. Yet at my place I have added reams of OM. My results suggest that it could be the quantities of OM causing a tie up issue. Yet this remains a possible primary cause of several hundreds of hours of lost work on hopelessly futile pumpkins.

Control of BES in Giant Pumpkins

1. Misting to increase relative humidity can reduce Blossom End Split(BES) by reducing transpiration during the sunny period.
2. Reduce air temperatures to slow transpiration.
3. Reduce light source & photosynthesis during the sunny period.
4. Maintain adequate soil moisture before and after the changeable weather patterns to ensure adequate calcium uptake.
5. Fruit Shading helps to increase elasticity of the skin.
6. Canopy pruning can reduce the photosynthates and fruit expansion.
7. Topical spray applications of ca to the fruits distal end.
8. Wind protection to reduce stress and leaf transpiration.
9. Soil balance. Add OM in moderation to reduce nutrient problems.

10/15/2006 11:16:47 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Joe, I think your correct. The Kahuna needs some more fancy book learnin. I ordered it today thanks for the help. Look at the time I have to get up at 4am. I must be the only poor sod who looses sleep over such things. I feal like Charlie friggen Brown.

Russ

10/15/2006 11:22:45 PM

Buren Ameland,West Frisian Islands, Netherlands

Russ,

Can I add something?
The importance of microbe life is very much true.
So many pumpkin growers do Not use any chemical fertilzer and have good results. still I use some especiallly agricultural gipsium is important for good balance in my low Ph soil.

About splits:
The 9 ways of controlling split are true, I think.
The thing that splits in my pumpkins have been so rare is that maximum temperature in my patch has never reached above 29 degrees Celsius, I have relative high humidity of the sea (living on an island) and greenhouse for wind and sharp sun protection. And soil I explaned before.

Try to avoid fast growing moments (not easy) and have the plants ready in time for early pollination and steady growt.

It is not too difficult at all to understand it.
But if your climate is not that easy, go and move to the sea side. ;-) lol

10/16/2006 1:16:16 AM

Ontario, Canada.

I used nearly no ferts this summer.
I applied gypsum last fall.
I applied sulfer last fall and spring.
My water bill is crazyily high.
Five plants and only one small sound fruit.

10/16/2006 5:02:49 AM

Check your log entrys and compare the timing of the splits with a big swing in barometric pressure, I did and found the results were pretty amazing. Glenn Andrews mentioned this idea one night and I just did the research here on my fruit that had BES,,,it made sense when I thought it was a fert app b4 hand but that wasn't the case. My pressure had moved from a low to a high the day b4,i.e. 3 days of clouds and rain to bright and sunny. The same held true for the one fruit that went down to a stem split,,,

Perhaps these fruit were lacking the wall density they required or perhaps it was another weather issue we have NO control over. These splits all occured during the "growth cycle" 25-40 days,,,

This all means nothing to the basis of this post,,just something else to loose sleep over,,,,,lol

10/16/2006 7:50:06 AM

Midwest

Looking at the anatomy of the Dill Ring, the walls of the pumpkin are drastically reduced underneath the ring. Splits in ridges and blossom-ends appear to have this anatomy also. The pumpkin anatomy must contribute a certain part to this issue. Because of this, you might want to eventually find those lines without these traits.

10/16/2006 1:21:54 PM

[email protected]

Russ,

Biology does play a role on the availability of soil bound nutrients. Here in CT we have trouble with very high Phosphorus killing mycorrhyzae that might otherwise help capture CA & K. The dynamics are amazing.

Rather than making oneself crazy...I recommend at least two annual soil tests & one tissue test to get a handle on what in the soil is making it to the leaves/fruit.

10/17/2006 2:24:25 PM