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Whidbey Island

A champion grower told me recently that older seeds tend not to produce big fruit like they did when they were newer. If you look at the GPC results, there does seem to be a trend.

Would you agree with this? More importantly, does anyone have a reason why this may be the case? The genetics are the same. If it germinates, why would there be any significant deterioration in the ability to produce a big one?

Could it be that the big growers move on to newer, sexier and more exciting seeds and we ordinary growers get those older seeds at lower cost and just can't reproduce the results of the big growers?

Does anybody have a ballpark suggestion for how old is too old?

5/4/2026 9:36:50 PM

C N Y

You nailed it under the 'Could it be that the...';
There would have to have been a side-by-side annual test of a great many groups of same-stock seeds in exactly the same
conditions/soil report results and durations to have formed any conclusion. Grower initiative and expectations would also be factors.
Ha ha, my eyes glanced ahead at the 'how old'
question and it piqued my interest before I could fully read it - I thought I was gonna comment on myself!
Nahh. High-middle-aged, lol. eg
PS - Checking numerous years' results on PumpkinFanatic would show the latest results for any seed, therefore maximum weights,
perhaps to be distinguished from a MUCH-earlier, same-seed-in-question's result(s). eg

[Last edit: 05/05/26 3:30:29 AM]

5/5/2026 3:08:28 AM

East Sussex, UK

Last year, Ruben Mendi grew a 2618 pounder off his 6 year old seed.
In other threads, some growers suggested that after 3 or 4 years, a seed may not be at it's full potential (1-3 years being the sweet spot) and may loose some vigor. I've seen some really old seeds grown recently which is always fun to watch, but in those cases, yes, you are dealing with "yesterday's genetics".

5/5/2026 5:10:05 AM

Grittyville, WA

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7154831/

This is a science stew but... It says the genetics might be the same, but the epigenetics might be altered (lost) in storage.

Very interesting questions. The price paid for a seed may affect the progeny because (I think) growers tend to put their best seed in their best spot. The results may then favor the more expensive seeds which may be newer. It then becomes a self reinforcing statistical bias. I tried to do an analysis a long time ago to eliminate this bias in the data. At the time, I was wondering what seed at the auctions was actually the best value.

Epigenetics sounds like quack science but I'm of the (perhaps mistaken) belief that it has been surprisingly proven. If the epigenetics is destroyed in the seed aging process, that could be a real detriment. Multiple PhD's could be earned in answering all the ensuing questions, the most obvious question is, how do the epigenetics get replaced again after they are lost?

The epigenetics helps control which genes are expressed from the genome. In some cases, the epigenetics can change the "phenotype" of the plant, apparently. Theoretically, the epigenetics could promote a big or heavy phenotype, or affect any number of other traits that might give a better result.

[Last edit: 05/05/26 5:51:37 AM]

5/5/2026 5:41:56 AM

Nova Scotia

Like Sam H stated, seeds maintain their potential for a few years approximately around 5, then diminishes with each passing year especially germination. However a subject that would have to be studied/tested much further in detail considering all the other factors involved.

5/5/2026 8:02:13 AM

Germany

Even though genetics are the same, and even when epigenetics would not change, the development of the seedling takes longer. That means, the parts of the plant that grow at the seedling stage will suffer some handicap (like a crown area of the plant that won´t have the maximum quality tissue). Thereafter, the further plant development might be similar to that of a younger seed, though. In my opinion, the extreme case of growing a plant from an old seed will be like growing a plant without stump (or like growing a clone), which cannot benefit from the strong roots from the very beginning but need to cope with what they get out of the quality plant material that started to grow a while after the plant´s "birth".

5/5/2026 10:34:38 AM